Category: Dating and Relationships
Hey all. So what does everyone think of a blind person dating a totally blind person vurses a person with some sight or 20/20 vision? I personally prefer dating someone with more vision than myself because I think that those who have little or no vision are more sheltered than those with quite a bit of vision or 20/20. Also, a person can meet more sighted people through friends who are visually impaired but are not toally blind. A VI or fully sighted person can tell his/her partner honestly how good she look for instance if your hair looks shitty or if clothes don't match though I'm not trying to sound conceited here. A blind guy can say that the girl look beautiful but in truth, physically she could look like she just woke up. I know that beauty comes from the inside, but it's nice to be appreciated for physical looks as well.
Hi, as someone who dated both blind and sighted, i think it is the matter of how you been brought up with, and your attitude and life experience towards the society and community. i'm not sure if i agree about the totally blind people are more shelted than the low vision or the sighted. it comes to what they want to learn and experience. dating the blind can be as lovely as dating a sighted, and dating the sighted can be as challenge as dating the blind.
it is also come to the power of care. lots of people asume that dating someone that have better vision than them will have better chance to be care for, be pemper, compare to dating someone that is totally blind or less vision then themselves. similarly, there are sighted people only dating blind people or people with disabilities for the very reason, wanting to for fill the role of a carer, rather than a lover. both as dangerous as each other.
i also heard some blind people say that they only date someone that is blind. i guess this is cause by fear of the unknown in the sighted world, and also to have the absolute incommon things that blind people share.
for me, i date someone cause i like or love the person, i admire them, not brecause they are sighted or blind.
having the attitude of, "dating a sighted person is better", to me, is very closed-minded. they both require adjustment to some extent, but ultimately, it's about who we are as individuals (whether we're blind, sighted, have multiple disabilities, or are able-bodied) shouldn't factor into the equation.
I have two problems with this topic:
1. their own kind? Like we're some kind of species, separate from the other, uh, kinds?
2. there are so many topics on this subject, it's not even funny. a few of them have been posted to fairly recently, too.
Ah but the differance is, this one is the most prejudice sounding.
What do you guys think of this idea. Try dating a variety of people, including totally blind ones, even if you meet somebody who's very smart but can only nuke a TV dinner. It's really unfair, even if we all do it, to paint any group of people with a broad brush, especially based on limitted exposure to them. But I say try different groups of people just socially and see which group makes you feel the most wanted and desirable, not the one that will make you look the best or who is perceived to be the coolest. It took me years to wise up and discover that I was really more in my element with other blind people and perhaps sighted folks with disabilities. OK, you had your share of negative and incompetent people, but being fully sighted and able-bodied does not guarantee you're more civilized either. This is just my experience. Others might feel more desired amongst the sighted and I'm not going to rain on that parade. But there's no should or shouldn't about it, no hard and fast rules, no magic formulas. You go where you feel the people are most interested in you and don't even worry about how it makes you look or what political statement it makes. If that means blind folks, good. If that means sighted folks, good.
I guess dating someone who's partially sighted gives a person the best of both worlds. In this way, the VI person can learn about the blind world and vice versa.
it raises one question. are we as people with disability treating the disability first, or we see people as people first. in this topic, it seems like, we are treating someone's disability over people.
sighted people can also as shelted as blind people if they are not willing to try, adventure, or leaving their comfort zone. Yes, might not be as obvious as blind people, but at times, their stupidity and ignorance exist just as bad as some blind people if not worse.
if you talking about someone who's partially sighted, or to be more correct, someone who's vision impaired but not totally blind, they are often those who can't find themselves in either of the world. trying to be sighted, but fail, and trying to be blind, but also fail.
back to my question, if we seeing disability as last, and seeing people as first, it does not matter who we date, what skin colour, disability, religion, etc etc.
of course, you may have your prefference as to you prefer dating a sighted than a blind person, an anglo saxon rather than middle eastern, etc.
i know blind people who become very successful in whatever profession they get in to, and i know sighted people who do nothing but eat and sleep for most of their life too.
Time for me to say what everybody else is already thinking.
This topic is fucking stupid.
Dating someone with partial vision? best of both worlds?
Jesus wept.
I can't even believe this shit.
well said, Joane. the trick here, is to not let ones blindness define them.
from this topic, it seems the original poster is claiming to wear a sign saying, "I'm blind; for those of you who may have potentially looked at me as a person first, don't bother. I'm blind; that's most important". I can't even begin to explain how many things wrong there are with that particular attitude.
personally, I don't want people to see me as their blind friend but rather, someone they enjoy being around cause I'm fun, loving, honest, and an all around good person.
Kevin: I have to say you're right, in terms of this topic sounding the most prejudice of all of the subject matter. the title alone is all I needed to hear to know this was going to be an incredibly shallow-minded topic. Don't even get me started on the content of the posts, especially the one about us dating partials so we can experience a bit of both worlds? You seem to forget that there's more to this world than blind and sighted. By this logic, we should date someone who is partially blind, partially deaf, relies on a wheelchair some of the time, requires special asistance understanding certain difficult intelectual concepts, has a mixed racial background, and the list goes on. Hopefully you get my point.
I don't understand why people put so much emphasis on blind or sighted. We are just people for peete sake.
If you guys stuck to your "own kind," I wouldn't have met my darling husband.
He's been blind since birth and I'm your typical Asian sighted woman (i.e. eyesight with stereotypical myopia and astigmatism) and we get along like a house on fire. He only knows what I look like by voice/personality and touch alone and he says he loves me just as I am, in spite of my wobbly bits and my insanity.
LOL
In spite of the fact that my husband (for lack of a better word... we'll be married in a few months) is blind and I am sighted, I think I've been more sheltered than he has... he went to university (I went and ended up dropping out), lives on his own (I live with my parents at the minute), travels independently... he hangs out with his friends (I tend to be more of a hermit)... he speaks 4 languages (English, French, German and Grade 2 braille) while I struggle with English and Grade 1 and has a kick ass job that I could only dream about aspiring to (we are both civil servants of sorts, but his position kicks ass over mine).
We don't let his blindness dictate the parameters of our relationship... we're too busy having fun with each other to let it bother us. His visual impairment is just that... an impairment. Yes, it sucks that he's blind, but whatever - there's not a whole heck of a lot that we can do about it and it's not going to bring about world peace or solve world hunger or change how I feel about him, so we just deal. Besides, I think that I can deal with his blindness a whole lot easier than if he were in a wheelchair. This is not to say that one is easier to deal with than the other... it just happens to be MY own experience and what I would prefer if I was forced to choose.
We are continually learning how to adapt to living with each other, which would be expected in any relationship, whether it's sighted sighted or Visually Impaired/Blind Sighted or Visually Impaired Visually Impaired.... he routinely leaves his laptop on all night in our bedroom without a second thought, yet I'm always having to throw a towel over the monitor or set to almost closed, as the glare tends to keep me awake at night; he scraped his eyebrow when I inadvertently walked him into a wall on our first full day together... I forgot that he can't see and wasn't thinking about how close we were to the wall... to this day, I still forget from time to time that he's blind and I still feel guilty about the scar on his face.
So you see, eyesight means nothing.
Our own kind...
I date who ever cooks the best food
to bad i cant get most of the women I hang out with to make me so much as a damn sandwich
If we should stick to our own kind, maybe the sighted world feels the same. And if that's the case, we don't really have a choice, right? Just food for thought, there. I'm totally blind and 90 percent deaf. There are things I can't do, such as drive a car or function in a crowd. While these things do get in the way at times, I don't think they define who I am. A few people here have actually gotten to know me at more than a superficial level, and some really great friendships have been formed.
What about when two sighted people meet? Do they look at each other and decide if they should date based on who cooks the better food or who can do the most household chores? I'll be the first to admit that I'm turned off by anyone who has no desire to learn new things, to grow and advance, but that extends way past household chores and the likes. Hell. How many busy sighted people hire their cleaning services done for them?
With all that said, I'll admit that being raised mostly around other blind people, that's where I'm the most comfortable, so it stands to reason that if I date, it will probably be at least someone with a visual impairment.
In the sighted world in some cases I've seen, we blind/VI are looked upon as retarded or incapable of being independent and we are in the minority. I've been to the blind schools and especially in my own, some of the students have embarrassing habits which make us as a people look bad. This is where I would prefer to be with someone who can see enough to tell people how pathetic some of us act and they can help us change our habits. For instance, some people have the habit of rocking or something of that sort and that would look weird to the sighted world.
DM, most sighted people won't tell you how pathetic blind people are, they will just ignore you and walk away. believe or not, the most truthful and hurtful often come from within the blind community ourselves, but then, believe or not, most people won't and choose not to accept such criticism from so call "our same kind".
and, all this "blind behaviour" often putting others off, specially the sighted. like constently touching, rocking, clicking, etc etc. it is more to do with basic negative behaviour or habbits will put the so call "some kind" off too..
Personally, I don't think I'd want to date someone based on their ability to get me to conform to their standards, or anyone else's, for that matter. I agree that we should help each other grow, when possible, but to date someone because they'll tell me how I should act? Nooooo friggin way!
I'm not saying we should let a sighted person take full control of our lives, but some parents of blind children don't teach them socially appropriate behavior in public so therefore perhaps dating a sighted person can have some good impact.
Yes, but that could have a dangerous side effect of making the relationship more of a parrent child one.
We're only as different as we make ourselves.
Depends, too, on your overall view of difference. Do you believe that being different or being seen as different is the most undesirable thing one can think of, or do you think difference is fascinating or that difference means individuality.
i agree with Anthony. if you need a sighted person to correct the behaviour, that is not a healthy relationship in any kind of defination. sadly, there are people falling for that, simply look for a sugar daddy or sugar mommy, to look after them, to provide for them, and have some such surcurity from it. And sadly, some sighted people date the blind people for the very reason too, having the sense of protecting, dominading, possessing, and controling.
some might ask, Is that right or wrong? Well, thats no right or wrong in this. it is unhealthy for sure, but it comes to your personal prefference. if you prefer someone that is dominading, controling, possessive and dispowering you because they are sighted, or have better sight then you do, thats purely one's choice.
of course, this can happen between a sighted couple, and also between a blind couple too. however, it is more obvious, if one is sighted, and the partner is blind.
As for me, i know i'm certainly not that type of person. I'm too overly independent to be possess, control, and dominade by One.
PS: i simply take an example from a dominading point of view, not against any sighted/blind couple. some most beautiful relationship i witness is one of the partner is either having some sort of disability, and another is sighted
I love my independence, but I always felt socially excluded out in the real society. I went to a public school in elementary school and for less than a semester of high school. I do have a few sighted friends, however, it's been difficult to see them as often as I like because I live so far from them. I'm just looking to be accepted in both the sighted and the blind communities. This topic was never meant to be a discriminatory topic, just a preference and presenting my arguments.
i get what you mean DM, it is always hard to have both foot in both world. from some one who decided to get out of blind school and entering elimentry school, i always felt left out from the blind society. till last few years, i sort of get back to the blind community slowly by involving myself in different committee, activites, and hoping, making a different thru my ability. what needs to be happen is the belancing between both, with the sighted and the blind community. you can rely on one, or another. i guess what it helps me in a sighted world is by heavily involve in different community activities, e.g. arts, to volunteering network.
Yes, i know you not meaning to discriminate the blind people, but the words you choose to use for the topic headline, it may suggest that, specially for people that may not know you.
for true exceptance to come from the world, you have to truly accept yourself first. it's hard as hell for people to get to know you and love who you are if you don't. just food for thought.
You would rather date people with some vision so they can learn that we're not all the socially inadequate morons that some people like to make us out to be? Chances are, if said sighted person thinks this way, they're not going to want to date you in the first place, and if they don't, don't you think they'd be a little offended at your reasons for dating them over a blind person? I'm not saying necessarily that you'd think any less of them, but if a potential partner of yours saw that comment, a few posts back, that you want to date people with some vision so you can show them some of us are educated, they might not know you wouldn't choose someone else over them if that were not the case.
Let's put the shoe on the other foot, and I'm merely being speculative here. If I had kept on avoiding blind people like I did when I was younger, thinking I was avoiding a stereotype, I would have never met the woman who I'm now married to and would have missed out on the happiest part of my life.
I'd certainly date a blind person like myself if there was chemistry. But the only two blind women I know in my area are definitely not my type. One is abot fifteen years my senior, which in itself isn't an issue. The issue is that she thinks nothing's worth getting involved in because it'll always be taken away from us sooner or later. That may be true given that nobody lives forever, but she thinks it's because we're blind and blind people can never get ahead in the world because the powers that be don't want to see us advance. Needless to say talking to her was extremely draining. The other woman, while she's closer to my age, is one of those who seems to feel we're entitled to things just because we're blind and she'll threaten to sue anyone who doesn't provide. And while I will take advantage of a discount if it's offered, I don't go around demanding them the way she does. So I've had better luck dating sighted women than blind. Granted most of those relationships didn't work out but it had less to do with the fact that I was blind than with the fact that at some level our personalities just weren't compatible.
I tend to seem to do better dating blind people. This has always been interesting to me, since I am blind yes, but I look rather sighted to most people. I don't have any of the blindisms that would put sighted people off. The main issue I've had with sighted people is not finding people who can accept me for who I am. They don't seem to want to date me, they seem to want to take care of me in a physical sense. I make it perfectly clear to them that I am independent and quite capable of taking care of myself. I can do my own dishes, laundry, cleaning, cooking, etc. I've never had a relationship with a sighted person that lasted past two dates, save for one sighted guy I was with for over a year and he had a disability as well. I wouldn't mind dating a sighted person, but I don't mind dating blind people either. I care more about the person's personality, compatibility, interests that they share with me, and chemistry, than I do whether they're blind or sighted. Unfortunately, I tend to find sighted people to be too handicapped by their sight as well, in that they're too looks-obsessed a lot of the time. They focus on the outside while I focus solely on the inside and what a person is really like. Obviously, this leads to some clashing.
Take Care,
Dawnielle
dm, I think you are sort of missing something. The habbits you talk about are not even "most" of "us."
well a lot of people I see had the whole rocking habits or weird headshaking habits or something crazy like that. I don't know if that was just at blind schools or anywhere else but I for sure saw that at my school for the blind.
You're in an environment where almost everyone around you is blind. Of course you're probably going to notice it more there than in the world at large. I've never been to a school for the blind myself, but from what I've heard from just about everyone I know who has, it's very common to see these types of behaviors, and only a small number of the staff members there are willing to crack down on it.
Yes, I know someone who went to one of those schools and she saw some verry strange things. If it is encouraged, it will continue. And yes, if sighted people see that they will be avoiding us.
I don't think a school for the blind is the ideal place to get a good impression of blind people and the same goes with independent living classes. In either case you're encountering blind folks who are still trying to figure out who they are. Now, I've never been to any of the conventions, but I wonder if that's any better, or if any closed environment where blind people are will make a good impression. But anymore, schools for the blind tend to take on blind kids who might have other disabilities, too, so that's another thing to factor in.
Let me tell you I go to my state's convention every year and I can tell you that you find some odd behaviors. However, as you said, it's not a great example because it doesn't represent most of the blind.
I lived with this one person who felt sorry for himself all the time because he is blind. He was so unmotivated to do anything and kept saying "I can't go anywhere cuz I'm blind." "I'll never find a job". and etc. Nothing I could do or say to him really helped, he always had the attitude of poor me and I tried to encourage him the best I could.
OK? so, that's one other person out of...how many? I don't know exactly how many blind people there are in the world, but I can guarantee that nobody knows every single one of us.
Yeah, and besides, while I'm not expecting you to deal with that, I would at least have a little empathy. Do you know the most common reason why people have an attitude like that? Because they're depressed. Not because they're blind either, it can happen to anyone. Anyone who's that unmotivated, that hopeless, probably needs help, and I don't mean that in a rude way, I mean it because it's probably the truth. It's been my experience that very few blind people actually try to claim helplessness just to get more benefits, to shrug off responsibility, or to make people feel sorry for them. Would I date someone like that? Hell no. But I wouldn't be disgusted by them, either. And it's not that I wouldn't date a person like that because they said such things either, but simply because I have my own issues to deal with, and I dated a person who was very depressed and who turned emotionally abusive because I couldn't fix him. Or maybe he would have been that way anyway, I don't know. What I do know is you can't help someone until they help themselves, nor can you help someone when you're drowning.
Ok so how about people who just put out their disability just like they want it to stand out so that they purposely get possibly negative attention from everyone else. Do hearing impaired people or anyone with other disabilities give themselves names on anything like deaf girl or something? To me that's just saying for us, hey I'm blind and I want the world to pity it or they might read it as, hey I'm blind so therefore I need special attention. I mean if you want to be accept more in the community of majority, don't put yourself out like that where it's so obvious. I mean it's enough for them to see a cane or a wheelchair to know that we have a disability.
i wouldn't have met my darling boy friend. i love him. for who he is. from the inside out. it doesn't matter. to me... i love him as a person. etc.. i don't agree..
DM, ironically, the fact that you keep bringing up all these negative aspects about *certain* people, which, by the way, is not just restricted to the blind community, could actually be a reason some people shy away from dating other people with similar characteristics. so, in a way, you made your point by proving that you, yourself, are one of those people some of us try to stay away from in terms of starting a relationship. I can't speak for other posters here, but I certainly wouldn't want to get involved with someone who can only see the negative in people. Not just that, but every time any of us suggest another reason for such behavior, you don't really deny this is so, but, without hesitation, you just move right along to the next negative trait that, again, only some of us exhibit. I honestly wonder: what are you trying to accomplish by doing this? Bring up every possible negative trait until you got the whole blind community covered?
my thoughts, exactly, Jess.
Perhaps she herself is maybe feeling a bit sorry for herself because she is blind? Perhaps a bit of self-loathing is going on?
I really can't say anything about this pitying thing. Can't say I ever ran into it and can't say I ever used it either. There's nothing wrong, however, in standing out as a blind person. Might as well be proud of it, because until they start inventing those miracle cures or faith healing ends up working much much better than it has been, most of us will be blind for the rest of our lives so we'd all better chillax and come to terms withit instead of hiding it or acting as if we're not or we're ashamed because society expects us to be ashamed.
I'm not implying that I feel sorry for myself but I've been around that quite often where people felt sorry for themselves because of their disabilities and I wouldn't want to date somebody like that. Sighted people to me seem to feel a lot more confident about themselves or at least they think they do. I don't have a problem with myself, but I just want to try and interact more with teh sighted world and not stick to our own little group.
My impression is that at least some people are just dealing with daily life by going to a therapist or taking Prozac. Others just drink or do illegal drugs, and there's video games if you're aggressive. The rest either have it altogether or think all the other methods are bullshit and either have other ways to deal or just have good hiding places for all the bodies. LOL! Can anybody, in all seriousness though, give me any back-up on people seeing therapists or taking Prozac?
there's a difference between wanting to make sure you're not restricting yourself to a certain group, and portraying said group of people like very few of them will accomplish anything in life.
to add to Jess's last post, if you're simply trying to make a point, DM, why not do so by living it, rather than post to a message board sounding like you yourself are portraying all of us in a bad light?
I'd like to bring a few things to the table here.
First of all, I'm totally blind and I'm okay with it. This fact would no doubt shock DM's would-be straw men, since it implies that I can not only live with my shortcomings but to an extent expect others to do the same thing.
Anyone willing to judge me (or anyone else, for that matter) because I'm not great at cooking, or because I don't fold shirts extremely well, or because I ccan't drive and don't have the capacity to read street signs, is not worth my time. They are focused upon qualities that do not define us as people. Thankfully, my experience tells me that such shallowness, while certainly not nonexistent, is at least somewhat uncommon, as are the people at whom it is probably more squarely aimed.
I've dated one person who was completely blind, one who had a moderate sight impairment (though only very briefly), and the rest of my partners have been sighted. There's all sorts of differences you'll see from situation to situation, and the balance is going to shift whether you want it to or not I'm afraid, but I think this whole topic, really, is rather circuitous.
And, Jess, I like the way you argue. Just sayin'. You're saying most of the things I would've said if I got here first.
well for me i look for only the following
1. loves me for me and only because i act like me.
2. cares about me because we love each other.
3. enjoys being around me because we are so confertable with each other.
4. can be there for me when i need them.
things that don't matter to me are:
1. if the person has or doesn't have sight.
2. fat or skinny.
3. skin color.
4. tall or short.
but there is one thing i look for . defanetly is:
that they have
a personality, sence of humor , they are indapendent
so as for those of ya that think sight matters because that sighted person can tell you how to act stick with your parents a relationship isn't for you.
The Zone will be perhaps the closest blind community that i'm involve in. Yes, i'm heavily involve in advocacy work for people with disability, specially people with vision impaired. But generally i won't exclusively choose to socialise with people that is vision impaired. Impaired or not impaired, if we don't click, we won't click. Impaired or not impaired, blind or sighted, i have my own requirement, incommon, whatever you want to call it for friendships, relationships.
One thing i found about us, as blind people, we are too focus on our own, as a person with disability.
My slogan is, i'm a human that is no different than the person next to me. Only different is my eyes are buggered. Yes, that means, i could have different approach on things, but doesn't mean i'm better, or worst than him or her, who's fully sighted or blind.
Should we stick to our own kind??? wow, really? Ok, now that I've fast-forwarded back from the 1950's, here's my answer. No.
DM, I am so saddened to learn of your perspective on blind people, as well as your perspective on sighted people. I'm getting the impression that you think all (or most) blind people are sedentary idiots who druel all over anything they can reach when they aren't too busy moaning about how nobody loves them and how they can't get a job because they're blind. Then, there are the sighted people: the saviors who will swoop in, correct our idiotic behaviours, and graciously tell us that we look hidious in the outfits we choose to wear. Thank heavens for them!
As usual, I agree whole-heartedly with everything godzilla-on-toast has said. There is absolutely no shame in being blind: although we experience certain struggles not experienced by the "sighted world", there is beauty in our experience as well, and that isn't to be forgotten. And I find it kind of interesting that you begrudge blind people who think they aren't finding employment because of their blindness. Certainly self-motivation and education are required, but are you honestly implying that blind people don't face any discrimination in the employment context?
My advice on dating is this: Find someone who will lift you up and you can't go wrong.
I couldn't have said it better than Skyla and Shepherd Wolf. They pretty much summed it up. Basically, if the person is cool and you have a connection, you date. If you're not feeling the person, you don't date. End of story. Whether or not the person's blind or sighted means nothing. In fact, my x-fiance was sighted, and most of the women I've had the pleasure of dating were sighted, and they've made for some incredible memories that I will cherish for a life time. Now, with a few sighted people with whom I have either dated or wished to start a relationship, I have had to not only prove to them that I was a decent human being, but that I also was competent and independant, and that put an added pressure on me because I felt like everything I did was being analyzed and put under a microscope. It wasn't fun for me and probably them as well. Needless to say, they didn't work. But you know, it's better that it didn't because if you have to prove to someone that you're anything more than a kind-hearted person with a good head on your shoulders and some spunk and life goals about you, then that person's not worth your time. On the otherhand, one of my most memorable relationships was with a blind girl. Even though we dated back in high school, it was really great. Again, it's really not that complicated, you date a person because you guys click and you think that you can build something solid together, and you don't worry about something as meaningless and petty as whether or not he/she is sighted or not.
As far as the whole Prozac therapist thing goes, I think those things can, and have genuinely helped some, and others use it as a crutch. Some people that I know I feel have used it for a crutch to avoid just dealing with the struggles that they had to endure on their own. I personally have never took any antidepressants or seen a shrink because I've been able to make it through those times when there was trouble in paradise perfectly fine on my own. However, that's just my own experience and views on the subject. Someone else could come on here and say that a therapist and antidepressants/Prozac have saved his/her life. Just like everything else in this crazy life, it just depends on the person, and everyone's got a different take on things.
I like Westcoastcdngrl's response.
And who is to say that the blind is the so-called cared-for and the sighted is the so-called carer?
I currently am the only income around here, I am supporting her rather risky entrepreneurial venture, albeit by a thread sometimes. And I am generally the type who likes to, if I let myself get carried away, jump in and save the day / be the bad-ass hero type, and not even for all the old-fashioned chivalrous reasons.
I think it basically doesn't matter whether you can or cannot properly use photons. Granted, there are going to be things you miss, like all the nonverbal stuff. But I'll tell you after 19 years of marriage, most if not all the communications problems and expectations differences come from differing backgrounds.
I wouldn't ever say the wife was sheltered, I would probably say more Middle-class suburban white. And I have lived life more as a floater, what some have called flexible, and when it came to trouble found myself more often in than out. Then there's variations in how you look at things, even spirituality for some people, it all adds up, and the difference in vision is pretty near the bottom end of that spectrum.
Trust me: when it comes to raising kids, getting things done, doing life, lots of things take precedence over who is blind.
Of course there are practical considerations, like the fact we live where I can't get around for myself now, but that is a sacrifice we knowingly made in order for the daughter to finish high school. It's a tough break for all concerned: I hate the fact she is the only one can get to the store for things, or that I need to ask for rides. Kinda goes against nature and every human and animal instinct known but it's for the daughter's educational benefit. Once that's done, and we move back into the city, I'll never again compromise on that front. But you do what you must for the kids.
So of course there are some things, but in the end, they are not as big as many others like background, expectations, even disposition. And some of the things you find attractive to begin with are some of the very things that will cause you to argue later.
This 'own kind' business is ridiculous, in an era when we all recognize that race is an artificial concept, ethnicity is merely culturally defined, and so-called gender roles are regionally different as well as case-by-case. People are human first.
All I would say has been said. I'll just add I want to date the person that is blind to my faults. Love me for what I am and you can be sighted or blind. I
I have dated both and do now, and I fiind that both are disabled in some way or abled. Lol
Somebody mentioned the Fifties. Now I'm not old enough to have lived through them, but I can speculate. I would imagine there was a time when parents prevented their blind children from being in a relationship at all, and I bet that may still happen today. I don't know if it's out of fear of producing blind children, be the partner blind or sighted, or just ignorance and parents seeing their blind children as eternal children so they're not supposed to understand about the ways of love and sex. Also, I would speculate that if blind people were encouraged to marry at all, it wouldn't be another blind person but a sighted person because the sighted person could take care of the blind one. Sounds like a loveless situation to me. And, it seems such attitudes still prevail today, too, even with young blind people who want to date. Yeah, when I was twenty and naive and didn't know what I really wanted I dreamed of dating a hot sighted girl with a car, too. Then years later I wised up.
Just a thought here.
A poster several posts back said they didn't date for looks.
Now, call me crazy, but don't you date for looks? Even a little bit?
I don't care if your blind or not, looks do play a part.
There are many ways to tell what someone looks like, and to say that looks play no part in the dating game is absurd.
My primary qualifier in a mate is that she is intelligent and has a good personality, but I am here to tell you that looks do matter.
If you go up to somebody and give them a hug only to find out that they look like one of those little troll action figures that you use to get in happy meals back in the 90s, it's time to bail.
Looks can determine a lot of things: how a person perceives their own social status, what they're likely to be like in other areas of their lives, etc.
Blind people who put themselves on a pedestal because they "don't date for looks" are, frankly, just idiots.
rant over
thanks for listening
on a more related note though,
I would never look to specifically date a blind girl.
The only reason I would ever want to date a blind person is to see what it's like not to have to deal with the isolation that blindness imposes.
I am happily in a long term relationship (about to be married in fact) with a wonderful sighted woman. I've never dated a blind woman, by the way.
My relationship is awesome, but there are times when I wish that I could be more open with the rest of the world about what it's like to be blind.
Whether it's talking to my friends, or my partner, I can't explain to the rest of the world what it's like to watch descriptive movies, or how demoralizing it can be to have to answer a billion questions about my guide dog every time I go out in public.
There are just some things that are very different, and I'm not necesarily saying bad here, about life as a blind person.
My fiance and I are very supportive of each other, and we both contribute to each other, but there are times when I wish I had at least a blind friend that I could talk too when I need to vent about jaws issues or talk about other stuff that, frankly, only another blind person can really understand.
And not to be a total asshole here, but I don't have any other blind friends. That's right, not one.
First of all, I don't live in an area where there are any other blind people that are even close to my age, and second, most of the other blind people I've met in my travels were... well, to be blunt, kind of fucked up.
I'm not saying that I don't have any excentricities of my own, but 9 out of the 10 blind people I've met have been really socially inept, or had other problems.
I met a guy at guide dog school, who was totally normal most of the time, but would some times go on histerical screaming rampages about how unfair the world was because he was blind. Totally normal dude 90 percent of the time, but would just go completely batshit for no discernible reason.
Please know that I'm not being a total hypocrit here. I recognize that I myself have some blind person quarks. I am prone to get lost on ocasion, and I can't for the life of me seem to make coffee without spilling the grounds everywhere, but I have enough powers of observation to know that it's not cool to flip out, or rock back and forth like a retarded monkey fiending for the next hit of crack.
I was in a meeting this one time with a blind man.
He was in his 40s, a business man, and all of a sudden, in the middle of the meeting, this guy takes his shoe and sock off and starts playing with his fucking foot.
I'm not even kidding here. I was in high school, and this guy was from the department of the blind, talking to me about a scholarship I was getting from them for college, and during his lecture to me about being an asset to the blind community, this fucking ass hat takes off his shoe and starts scratching his toes? In a meeting? In front of a shit load of people?
Anyway, I got a little sidetracked.
All I'm saying is that I'd never date a woman simply because she was blind.
Just like I'd never seek out a white, black, indian, asian, latina, etc. etc. etc.
It's all about the personality, wit, charm, intellect, and yes, the looks.
I too have gotten a dumb ass question "how do I know what she looks like" um... lets see, your hands can tell you a lot about your partner, weather she is some what thick, or slim, her brests are to dty for or run, run far away My point is this, I do not give a rats ass if your blind, blind/deaf or can see, its the person who I go for when I am dating a person. At this time married too, who I look at every day or hold feel what ever have you with my explination.
Plus, the blind can discriminate based on voice alone. And voice is something that cannot be controlled.
Looks can, to a point: I'm early 40s and while I don't look like a sex god, I don'tlook like some others my own age who are getting the big beer guts, etc. because I work out. Not judging the beer gut: I love my beers as anyone who knows me knows. But I can at least to some extent modify my own appearance by a dose of good ol'-fashioned PT. But the voice? Who can change their own voice? I'll admit that I find some voices far more attractive than others. But if you're gonna say the blind are never shallow that way, you would have to admit, judging by voice is far more shallow than judging by looks, because anybody can to at least some extent modify what they look like to one extent or another.
Oh, and as to the comments everyone seems to make about how fucked-up every other blind person is? And how they don't want to appear blind? Well kidlets, here's the scoop: There's even people now who think it's shallow to try and continue to look younger as you get older, which to me seems to just go along with nature at least to a moderate extent. But what does that say about you, pickin on the other blind people?
Granted, I've made my mistakes: seeing someone with a heavy southern accent who loves fried food and thinking to myself "Oooh, one of them fundamentalist bunker-dwelling nut jobs. Wonder when they think the world's gonna end." That was in my ignorant 20s, near about some of you fools' age, I being just as much a fool then as some of you are now.
Trust me: Out here people who actually are like that would be what you call awkward. Many of us would take the head-spinner exorcists you describe, or the foot waver, over some of those types any day. After all, neither exorcist nor foot waver has an illicit weapons cache anywhere, so they at least pose less of a public threat.
So do you think a southern person should have to ditch the accent, stop eating fried food, and a few other stereotypical things just to make others not look so bad? Or would you say that it's not fair for them to have to ditch their "undesirable" mannerisms in order to climb the corporate ladder in Seattle, San Francisco, L.A. and New York?
I'm just pointing out the radical inconsistency on this site, which is so apparent it's like looking at the Grand Canyon and calling it a hairline fracture!
Now as to dating though? It stands to reason for the most part blind people would date sighted people, because there simply are more of them. I have always found it offensive when blind people assert that the main reason I dated sighted people was because of the transportation or other so-called caretaking characteristics. In order to date someone blind, you'd have to first be exposed to enough of them, and escond the sample size would have to be large enough that you and they hit it off. In the end, that's really all it is. Both extremes on the scale really do deserve each other.
People who say it would be nice to talk to someone about the things we run into, is absolutely right. Which is probably what makes this site so popular for us. That's true of any group: even interest groups, who are either not part of popular culture, are misrepresented, or just spread out all over: things that pretty well describe us.
But I don't think we have a corner on the market for being any more or less shallow, or any more or less undesirable or desirable characteristics.
Oh and one final thought: should be said.
There's no shame in being blind, or exhibiting so-called blind traits. Naturally there are some things one may not want to do in public.
Here I sit, a very average middle-age white guy, grew up through the feminist man-guilt, through the wite-imposed white guilt (still don't know any blacks who laid that one on us). Took me till recent years to be just fine with the way things are. And though I come up average in many ways, that doesn't make me some second-class so-called 'mediocre' either: I've generally always done my level best, and realize sometimes all you've got just isn't good enough. But just as there's no shame in being a average heterosexual white guy, there's no shame in being a blind guy either.
I'm no longer out to prove that I'm not a sexist, or that I'm not a racist, or that I'm not a homophobe. In fact, if someone wants to judge me as such based on my so-called race, age range, or gender, wellhave at it. And if they've got stories to go with it, gives them something to do. Same goes for being blind.
And who you date or hook up with, inside or outside your so-called kind or race, will have people belly-aching on either side. Belly-aching is just what some people do best.
As usual, very well said, Leo.
I'll add a little bit to what you said by admitting that I do have a specific voice type that I find attractive, and that certain voices are, well, turn offs. Is that really any worse than finding certain body types unatractive? Not really, and lots of people think that way just as much as I or other blind people zero in on voices.
Of course, that's not all I look for, but someone's voice will certainly grab my attention and create a first impression of what I imagine the person looks like. Hell, I could be completely wrong, and in fact have been, but that's just the way my mind works. A person's voice can also tell me a lot of other things too, like how trustworthy a person is, or if they're being fake or guarded in any way. I've never heard anyone else say that, but it's the truth. I've been in several situations where I met someone, and instinctively knew that if I continued to talk to them, I would be in trouble or get betrayed later on down the line. And, every single time I ignored that instinct, guess what happened? Just what I predicted, pretty much. Of course I wouldn't know the exact circumstances, but I know enough now to listen to my gut when I tune into the little things that go unnoticed to everyone else.
As far as the whole all blind people are fucked up thing goes, I am really sick of that attitude. While it may be true to an extent, and I can't fault you for having your prejudices, because personal experience does carry much more weight than most of us give it credit for, it really pisses me off when I hear people say that. Most of my past relationships have been with blind people, not because I wouldn't or won't date sighted people, but because at the time I was in a school for the blind, so that's what I was surrounded by. A lot of those kids were fucked up, don't get me wrong. But there's a lot of ways to be fucked up too. I'd like to say that I dated "normal" blind people, but the truth is, how can I say that when I'm far from normal myself? I've dealt with depression for as long as I can remember, and at times it does hold a tight enough grip on me that I feel fucked up. So is that wrong?
My mom told me once when I was in high school to stop dating blind people because they're fucked up (and yes, she used those exact words.) Little did she know that she had just put her own daughter into the same category. Needless to say, I was pretty hurt. And both my parents are scared to death of the prospect of me getting married or having kids (I don't want to have kids, and they know this, but I suppose they worry about an "accident.") It's not the usual parental empty nest syndrome either, since my sister lived with her ex-fiancee and they were extremely happy for her. It's the fact that they don't think blind people should experience sex. They never came right out and said that, but they implied it on several occasions.
I'm not saying that all blind people are fucked up.
If I thought that, I wouldn't be writing or reading on the zone.
All I do know is that most of the blind people I've encountered have been odd. I'm not saying all of them, just a good many. And as the old saying goes, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the greese. I don't judge a person based on blindness, but I do judge a person on how they treat me and others.
My only point was that in my experience, a disproportionately large amount of blind people seem to be jerks.
So I am curious how this is any more valid than the southern confederate I met in Florida who claimed the majority of black people he had met were dirty, stinky, and uneducated?
I've known many African Americans from many different professions, and they happen not to be any of those things.
And most people would cry racist at that comment.
Or the guy who says most every woman he meets on the job has a stress meltdown and cannot control her monthly cycle. Can you imagine that even being said? He's dead shortly after that one gets outa his mouth.
We could hit up any other group that's either sexy or popular and you could be branded for it. Of course, it's a free Internet, you can do what you want. And the rest of us can see the disparity for what it is.
To the question on voice? Sure it happens, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Just, there's no claim we can have as a so-called group on not being shallow, is all I say. Since nobody can really control their voice characteristics. I certainly cannot control mine, and there are some that some people have quite openly said over the years are annoying. I've got one of those that "carries" in an atrium or other environment, even if I'm not talking loud at all. There is nothing that can ever be done about that. I'm just saying we can't stake a claim on lack of shallowness, based on the fact we can't see. That is all.
Oh leoGardian, where have you been all my life? It's so refreshing to see posts like yours.
The only thing I'll add to what you said is what a disservice we're doing to ourselves by holding attitudes like the one you talk about. we decide to distinguish ourselves from the "idiotic blind majority" and thereby end up isolating ourselves from what could actually be a really supporting and resourceful community. Far too many blind people I know fall all over themselves to declare that they "don't hang out with other blind people because they're weird", or how they love it so much when people forget they're blind. Don't get me wrong: I don't want my blindness to be central in someone's brain all the time or for it to keep them preoccupied in their sleep, but why would I really find it flattering that someone has forgotten a large and fundamental part of my existence? of course I'm "more than just blind", but being blind is certainly a part of the package: and not an entirely terrible feature at that. It's like being happy that someone has forgotten that you're black. Anyway, I'll stop there, though I could go on forever.
Oh, one more thing. Fire and rain, your post really resonated with me. My parents have always hoped I would marry a sighted person. My mother has also somehow concluded that she must have done something awful in order to have the punishment of having a blind child. My mother is one of the most wonderful people I know, and I love her dearly, but she's obviously got a lot of misconceptions about what it means to be blind--and much of her thought process on life circumstances is born out of religion and culture.
Wow FR, sounds like your parents are fucked up. No offense but that's the feeling I get. I'm glad my folks weren't like that, although I was briefly married to a woman whose folksI suspect may have been. Ironic really since they also wanted me to be te one who won the bread in the household.
Very well said to posts 68 and 69. :) Couldn't have said it better myself.
Yep... I second that.
Yes good post.
Now about looks. That made me laugh, but what you feel means a lot to you. That is looks. Lol
The only drawback I have found to dating a blind woman to a sighted one is sometimes it is more expensive to travel. Even if she, the sighted woman doesn't drive, she can travel most times easy by bus. I find that some blind persons can not, so taxi cost are in there.
Sure it is easier to do things with someone that sees, only because we live in a sighted world, but it can be, and is just as enjoyable to date either.
Now that playing with a foot? I guess sighted people have these issue too. Lol
It is a dark day when we allow our blindness to define us, or who we hang around with. I have dated more blind people than sighted. I'm also married now to a wonderful sighted lady. I can't deny that being with her makes a few things in life a little easier. Certainly my fassion sense has grately improved, and I have someone who can show me routes to places whenever I need, rather than wating two months for an orientation and mobility instructor. But I have been friends with and have also dated a couple exceptional young ladies with varying degrees of blindness. And despite a near fatal run-in with one, those experiences were wonderful as well. They have helped mold me into the kind of husband I always wanted to be. It's true there are some really socially awkward blind people with abismal heigine and a distinct "poor me" aditude. But you know? There are plenty of sighted people like that too. Being blind is a condition, and to a point, a way of life. It is what we are, and I don't know if that will ever change. But it is not who we are. We aren't "a kind". What we are are a people with common barriers and experiences. Should we stick by one another and help each other out as the global support group we could be? Absolutely. Should we isolate ourselves from the rest of the world? How will that help anyone? All I know is our blindness isn't what defines us. it isn't even always what causes others to treat us negatively. it is our aditude, or personality, our actions and our outlook which people iwll see. Certainly it's nice when people forget that I am blind, but not because I want to hide that fact. It's simply nice to know it's not my defining quality.
I guess I'm just not attracted to many blind women. There've been a few, evenon te Zone, that I might consider dating (and one I did that didn't work out), but not many.
the fact that you included the word "blind" in that sentence describing who you weren't attracted to is probably half the reason you're not. Just saying.
Probably not.
Besides, I can't help who I am and am not attracted to.
What wasI supposed to say, non sighted or some other political correctness crap?
what I think Jess was trying to say, Bryan, is that you're putting limitations on yourself by having the view of flat out refusing to date blind women.
you don't like it that at least one of your exes had a problem with your blindness, right? so, why would you take that same stance towards others?
maybe people feel the same way about you; have you considered that? maybe they wouldn't date you cause you're too negative, or any other trait that's unlikeable.
Nowhere in that post, and I mean nowhere, did I say I flat out refuse to date blind women. All I said, and you'd see that if you read my post more carefully, was that there haven't been many blind women I've been attracted to. If it came out wrong I apologize, but that's all I meant. The fact that they didn't work out wasn't even because of our blindness, well except perhaps for my very first girlfriend, who showed no signs of ever wanting to be out on her own and indeed still isn't more than ten years later. This is not to say that if a blind woman came along that I really felt a connection with I wouldn't try to go out with her, because I would. As I've gotten older I've just realized that I'm not as attracted to blind women.
chelsea is correct. And I'm not at all saying that you should or should not date the types of people you are. I'm saying that the fact you chose to emphasize the blindness trait when describing who you were and were not attracted to could be the reason for this.
If I said, hypothetically, that I've rarely ever been attracted to short men, would you not be left to wonder if I might be putting a little too much emphasis on the fact they're short?
Not necessarily. Now if you'd said you flat out wouldn't date short men I might wonder. As it is rarely even just means you haven't met MANY you were interested in.
Bryan, we can agree to disagree; I wholeheartedly believe that in placing emphasis on something such as you did in regards to your not being attracted to many blind women, means you're a lot less likely to eeven give one a chance.
If someone come to me telling me that they want to date me the blind girl, i'll run quick and fast without looking back.
I know wat I meant and that's all that matters.
I can see both sides of this. He's just saying "I haven't found a person that hhappens to be blind, that I like" Or "I have dated a few persons that were blind, and I haven't been interested in the woman, her being blind had nothing to do with that."
Now on the other side you are using the blind thing to say you aren't interested, and on a sight with mostly blind women you are going to get kicked. Lol
If you were on a site of short fat women well you'd get the same reaction. You can't win this one. Lol
Exactly. All I really said was SO FAR! I haven't met many blind women who attracted me enough to date them. And it probably had more to do with their attitudes towards their blindness than with the actual fact that they were blind. I can see where that might have caused some confusion. But I in no way meant I wouldn't ever date a blind woman if there was a real connection between us.
Thats right. I suppose then, that raises a question, do you date a blind person because their are blind, and therefore they got something in common with you cause youa re blind too, or you date the person because of who they are, regardless of their skin colour, religion, disability, ability, etc etc?
And if the latter, then why did you bring a specific trait into the picture in the first place?
Well said, 74.
Blindness is a hardware and legal definition period. It has no attitude, personality, or anything else. It simply means you have 2200 or less visual accuity. I say all this in response to those who talk about it so-called defining us, and all that. It's fuckin hardware, people. Granted, there are things we miss, and all of that, but it's not a quality, it's not a lifestyle or anything else. It's just a legal definition for how much photons you can use. All the other stuff written about it, or it defining us, or all of that, is simply artificial. Both extremes for so-called defining us or it, really do deserve each other.
@OceanDream Brian brought a specific trait into the mix because that's what we're talking about. We are discussing specifically whether blind people should, or choose to, date other people because they are blind. Or I'll phrase it this way: Is blindness a determining factor in whether you choose to date someone or not? Brian is saying no. He's not saying he would never date a woman who is blind, but that there are not many who were or are appealing to him. We're talking about blindness and dating, seriously.
I won't hate a person if blindness determines whether they will date a person or not. I could call such people shallow and so on all the du-da day, but there are traits that are deal-breakers for me that other people have and will call me shallow for, so there.
To me, it doesn't matter, though all of my longer term relationships have been with VI/blind guys.
I think one thing that people should pay attention to, and this is if you're lucky to be in contact with both sighted and blind folks, is where do you feel the most at home, the most wanted and accepted and as if you actually have a chance. It's one thing to say, for example, you want a sighted date, but if you keep on getting told it'll happen some other time or excuses are made or you're otherwise brushed aside, maybe this is telling you something. Yes, there's folks that will argue there's nobility in the struggle, but I don't think so. If you're picking your dates, by the way, according to which does not have a stereotype attached, good luck, both combinations have stereotypes slapped on them. Stop dating for the sake of what other people might think, even your bestest friends. Find someboddy that makes you feel wanted and happy and that you do the same for them. Doesn't matter if they have a face Godzilla would run away from or they're in a wheelchair for that matter. If their outlook on life isn't eternally gloomy and they're comfy in their own skin despite any oddities in hardware, go for it. Look, my wife told me from the very start from when we were just friends that she wasn't pretty. I didn't care and I don't care now because I'm more interested in beauty of personality than beauty in face. That kind of thing can fade with age and you can only hold it back for so long. And yeah, she's as blind as I am although she used to have some eyesight in the past, but still I wouldn't pass her up for some fully sighted chick with a car.
And not all us who are with sighted chicks are that because of the car or supposed conveniences. I have rather despised that stereotype as well, and I honestly think both come from the same place. I kinda echo what he's sayin' be with who you want.
I agree with the last two posts completely. I mean gee. My wife never even had her driver's license up until less than a year ago (and we've been together for six years. In the end it all comes down to personality; yours, and theirs.
As to comfort, or others making you comfortable, one cannot even accept blanketly that photon usability is going to make two people more comfortable.
By way of example: There's someone like me, who basically had to do or die pretty much, no technology to speak of growing up or anything, and so for those who had access to things in the 80s which I did not, they saw me as an outsider. Now I have not idealized lack of technology: to me, idealism is next to shit in the dictionary anyway, so, it's not that I idealized the way I happen to have done things. But the differences were apparently great enough to cause them to belittle or do other things towards me. So I cannot buy that simply being blind will give two people any sort of advantage when it comes to getting along for any reason. Two people get along because they get along, artificially and institutionally-constructed minority factors aside.
It does play a part. Some people are so at home with those much more like them that they refuse to branch out.
Sword of Sapphire's got it right. I brought it up because that was the subject under discussion. I just voiced my experiences up to now. I didn't say I wouldn't adapt if something new happened.
I have gona out with people thatw were sited but did not have twenty twenty vision.
I once dated a totally sited person and I did not like the sitution.
I just am saying this from experance.
I agree with posts 94, 95 and 96; date someone with whom you feel comfortable with and who makes you feel happy, not just because the person happens to be blind or sighted.
Well that's the point. Most, that being the key word, of the blind folks I've known didn't make me feel that way. Again, not to say that I wouldn't date a blind woman who did. I just haven't met one yet.
I'm blind, my partner is fully sighted and uses a wheelchair. after a while you stopp seeing the disability, a cain, wheelchair etc is only an ends to the mean - its the person that counts. we have fun taking the piss out of each others problems, I keep telling her she should go on a five mile run and she's always saying how i should 'watch' telly. my advice - just find someone, able bodied or not who makes you happy, and who accepts you for you. nothing is more precious on this planet than unconditional love.